[amsat-bb] Re: [eu-amsat] ITAR vs cooperation? or bull..dozer;)

Thomas Frey th.frey at vtxmail.ch
Tue Sep 8 04:55:08 PDT 2009

Hello Luc

I can't answer all your questons, please read the following article
on the AMSAT-DL homepage:

You can translate it with Google to your language. I hope, you can find
a few answers. For specific answers there are also any OM's around here,
I think.

Luc Leblanc schrieb:
> >From AMSAT-NA web page who was updated: 23 Aug, 09
> excerpt:
> AMSAT Files CJ Requests with US State Department
> "AMSAT's involvement with P3-E halted in 2006 due to concerns over possible ITAR violations."
> Did anyone can explain why is it possible to say "AMSAT's involvement with P3-E halted in 2006 due to concerns over possible ITAR 
> violations" when i wrote about the memorandum (see below) on February 22 2007 as this paper has been signed prior to February 2007 in 2006?
> Even if  ITAR does not apply to information related to general scientific, mathematical or engineering principles that is commonly taught 
> in schools and colleges or information that is (legitimately) in the public domain. Nor does it apply to general marketing information or 
> basic system descriptions. (see below)
> How the cooperation between AMSAT-NA  and AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-UK stopped in 2006 when theses 3 gentlemens                              
> Peter DB2OS  for AMSAT-DL, Rick W2GPS  for AMSAT-NA, Jim G3WGM for AMSAT-UK signed a memorandum of understanding and cooperation the same 
> very year??? They where surely not all out of their mind in 2006 or it is something else?
> And why asking in January 2009 3 years later for a V'oluntary Disclosure' (Not a VOLUNARY a typo on the AMSAT web page) when most of the 
> amateur ham stuff is already in the public domain area? It is the same as if you are speeding and you go back to your police station 3 
> years later telling them you violate the law 3 years ago!!! or is it a way to justify their inaction refusing to get any blame?
> What it is the most intriguing is the time frame and the fact they relate the cooperation stopping to ITAR in 2006 when they signed a 
> memorandum of understanding and cooperation at the same time? There is something here who does not added up.
> Could be it is a way to try hiding their poor management past years record? or something we should ask to Gomez Addams or to his lovely 
> pale skin and a Gothic appearance wife Morticia Addams? 
> It is a lot of good questions to be ask at the next AMSAT-NA symposium Board of Directors general meeting in October?
> Memorandum of Understanding between
> AMSAT-DL for the last five years has been building the P3-E spacecraft to be 
> launched into a HEO and intended as a replacement for previous P3 satellites. 
> It's purpose is to facilitate communication between radio-amateurs worldwide 
> and at the same time to test and verify technologies and procedures needed for 
> the P5-A mission to Mars. AMSAT-DL to this day has invested about 500,000 Euro 
> into this project.
> AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-UK wish to contribute to the P3-E project, primarily with 
> the goal to have the launch of P3-E as early as possible in order to give to 
> their respective members the use of the communication services provided by P3-
> E.
> It is recognized that the capability of AMSAT-DL to raise funds limits the 
> speed of the development of P3-E. In order to make a launch possible in 2008, 
> AMSAT-DL has an immediate need of 40,000 Euro and an estimated need of ~200,000 
> Euro prior to the actual launch-date. AMSAT-NA and AMSAT-UK wish to help with 
> the raising of these requirements by providing 30,000 Euro (AMSAT-NA) and 
> 10,000 Euro (AMSAT-UK) in the near future. Furthermore, they wish to contribute 
> by raising additional funding as the actual launch arrangements materialize.
> In order to achieve an effective cooperation in the funding effort and the 
> construction and launching of P3-E, the following details to implement the 
> cooperation are agreed:
>    1. The three AMSAT organizations will closely coordinate their activities 
> and monitor progress of the project by frequent mutual consultations on the 
> telephone. To this end the three parties will hold nominally a monthly 
> telephone conference to review the status of the project and to identify 
> problem areas. At this time the three organizations will be represented by 
> Rick, Jim and Peter at these telephone-conferences.
>    2. According to need, the three organizations agree to hold sufficiently 
> frequent meetings in person to review the project status. These meetings are 
> assumed to be desirable with a frequency of 6-12 month between them.
>    3. It is understood by all three organizations that procuring a timely 
> launch for P3-E is one of the bigger challenges of the project. AMSAT-DL is 
> concentrating major efforts of procuring a launch with Arianespace, while AMSAT-
> NA is trying to develop a launch opportunity within the USA. All parties 
> recognize that major progress in funding is contingent on a firm launch 
> agreement. All parties further recognize that a timely construction and 
> integration of P3-E is critically dependent on all parties giving highest 
> priority to fulfilling their respective commitments.
>    4. All three organizations understand that funding progress is dependent on 
> effective information dissemination worldwide. To this end the three 
> organizations reiterate their mutual agreement that each organization can 
> publish all P3-E related publications of the other two organizations in their 
> respective public organs without special permission. Furthermore, each 
> organization is free to prepare 'official' statements about the project, but 
> these publications must be agreed with the project management of P3-E (AMSAT- 
> DL) prior to publication. Requests for agreement to publish will be sent to 
> Peter (or another person chosen by him), who will use best efforts to respond 
> within 7 days with an answer. With other publications by individual authors no 
> such agreement is necessary provided that the context makes it is clear that 
> the publication is not an official declaration by the project management or 
>    5. AMSAT-DL reiterates that the operational use of P3-E will be primarily to 
> provide amateur radio communication services. But all parties also understand 
> that the spacecraft is a dual service satellite, and that AMSAT-DL retains the 
> right to occasionally reduce the provision of amateur radio services if work 
> towards P5-A requires this. A-DL will use due diligence to minimize the impact 
> of the P5-A requirements on the provision of amateur services.
> For AMSAT-DL                For AMSAT-NA                For AMSAT-UK
> Peter DB2OS                 Rick W2GPS J                 Jim G3WGM
> _________________________________________________________________________________
> Just check here for the proof
> http://www.amsat.org/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/200702/msg00394.html
> _________________________________________________________________________________
> The ITAR public domain exclusions
> § 120.11 Public domain.
> (a) Public domain means information
> which is published and which is generally
> accessible or available to the
> public:
> (1) Through sales at newsstands and
> bookstores;
> (2) Through subscriptions which are
> available without restriction to any individual
> who desires to obtain or purchase
> the published information;
> (3) Through second class mailing
> privileges granted by the U.S. Government;
> (4) At libraries open to the public or
> from which the public can obtain documents;
> (5) Through patents available at any
> patent office;
> (6) Through unlimited distribution at
> a conference, meeting, seminar, trade
> show or exhibition, generally accessible
> to the public, in the United
> States;
> (7) Through public release (i.e., unlimited
> distribution) in any form (e.g.,
> not necessarily in published form) after
> approval by the cognizant U.S. government
> department or agency (see also
> § 125.4(b)(13) of this subchapter);
> (8) Through fundamental research in
> science and engineering at accredited
> institutions of higher learning in the
> U.S. where the resulting information is
> ordinarily published and shared broadly
> in the scientific community. Fundamental
> research is defined to mean
> basic and applied research in science
> and engineering where the resulting information
> is ordinarily published and
> shared broadly within the scientific
> community, as distinguished from research
> the results of which are restricted
> for proprietary reasons or specific
> U.S. Government access and dissemination
> controls. University research
> will not be considered fundamental
> research if:
> (i) The University or its researchers
> accept other restrictions on publication
> of scientific and technical information
> resulting from the project or
> activity, or
> (ii) The research is funded by the
> U.S. Government and specific access
> and dissemination controls protecting
> information resulting from the research
> are applicable.
> (b) [Reserved]
> PS. Did any one ever heard of any report about the memorandum and the way it works since 2006?
> "-"
> Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
> Skype VE2DWE
> www.qsl.net/ve2dwe
> DSTAR urcall VE2DWE
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Mit freundlichen Grüssen, Regards, 73
    Thomas Frey, HB9SKA

  Thomas Frey, Holzgasse 2, CH-5242 Birr, Tel. + Fax: 056 444 93 41

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