<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Your concerns are addressed in the note.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>ARRL SDR Working Group Chair, AMSAT VP Engineering.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“Trample the slow .... Hurdle the dead"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
frank.brickle@gmail.com [mailto:frank.brickle@gmail.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank
Brickle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bob McGwier<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Michelle; namaste-dev<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Namaste-dev] Re: System Block Diagram - Version 1, and
other matters<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I hope I'll be permitted a
little indulgence in expressing this, but there are a couple of things about
this plan of action that concern me.<br>
<br>
(1) Is this an Amateur Service project or is it something else? Based on what I
see here, the overriding concern is to produce an off-label P25 implementation,
irrespective of the sanctions in place regarding use of that technology,
frequency allocations, etc.<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t think we will
ever be allowed to do P25. BUT, if we are, we know we can get
there. Michelle, et. al. have it right. Nothing would impress more
or have more impact than implementing this for the first responder.
But we cannot, nor would we, do this without official sanction, operating in
the amateur service. This would mean a control operator present.
The only way we could do otherwise would be to have a change of rules enacted.
Who believes this would happen? I am only saying we CAN, not that we
should.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
(2) Where are the boundaries to be drawn between US Gov, local gov responders,
and everything else? Forgive me for being uncomfortable about this, but much of
the development plan laid out here appears to involve a deliberate blurring of
boundaries, both in development resources, and ultimate purpose of the project.
How are we entitled to a free and clear use of P25 at all, if we aren't
representatives of the only agencies entitled to such free and clear use?<span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I don’t know and I don’t
know if Michelle, et. al. have discussed this with the FCC. I have indeed
discussed it with DHS. The ONLY was we could operate this would be
with control operators in actual control or a change in the rules for
emergencies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
I apologize if I'm being obtuse but these issues are important to get in their
proper places now, not later. In any case it seems questionable (if not
completely inappropriate) to be calling for volunteer effort in support of what
can easily be mistaken, based on the current lack of clarity, for a
para-governmental development effort.<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sounds like a good
plan. For the implementation of the SDR prototype, nothing like
this complex (political, technical, etc.) issue needs to be addressed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
Given the labile character of government policy making, I believe we should all
be very reluctant to commit time, intellectual property, and other resources
without a luminously clear understanding of who owns what. It was precisely a
lack of clarity in this area that led to the P25 IP fiasco in the first place.<span
style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>It
is a mess isn’t it? The chief scientist at DHS told a large
audience at the SDR Forum in Denver that he wasted hundreds of millions and
produced NIL. Off line, he has been very supportive but HE IS NOT THE
FCC. Your cautionary note is noted and accepted. </span><br>
<br>
73<br>
Frank<br>
AB2KT<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Bob McGwier <<a
href="mailto:rwmcgwier@gmail.com">rwmcgwier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This is as good "big
picture" as we can get. Thank you for this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I want to give you all some
data points. What follows is information unrelated to my ego.
Please take it as such.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>In my work on the REAL dark
side of the force as opposed to the "obscure" signature below
;-), I have some experience of what can be accomplished in the real world
and am completely compared to help begin implementation of this along with the
corresponding half on the other side.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>With a USRP2 and a modern
PC, I can prototype this very quickly indeed if we do not do the
FH-CDMA. Matt tells me "my" USRP2 are close to
"in the mail".</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I will be meeting with Rick on
Sunday and I will brow beat him about getting an svn repository up so we can
begin this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Let me give you a data
point. On a single Dell 2950 with two Quad core Xeon at 3.16
GHz, I can do all I/O and process down to bits communications channels of
all sorts of signal channels in parallel. I do, day in and day out,
processing of 70 channels, each one MHz wide, where I process for energy
alarms, classify the content, decide to send it down to a narrower band
processor and run all of those. There are literally thousands of threads
in this system and some of the demodulation and decoding (forward error
correction and removal of interleaver) is intense. It uses the sdr
core you can blame AB2KT and I for having started. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This is not bragging, please
believe me. If I wanted to brag, I would have told you about it ages ago
when it was first done (and told you I can process more data than Vanu can on
his servers ;-) ). I bring it up to try and move us to something concrete
as quickly as possible and to demonstrate my strongest possible belief we
can, so we have stuff to show in October.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We have, as demonstrated in
Paul's diagram, an almost completely software defined system. I have a
novel idea. Let's write some software. We have the necessary tools
available to this project in the USRP2 and Gnu Radio to do rapid
prototyping of this system. We should. It will cost only a few
thousand dollars to do the entire ground station software prototype out to
baseband and even build a spacecraft simulator in the same space. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>We can use existing plug in
cards for the USRP2, again inexpensive, to move it to RF.
These are NOT in our bands but we are not trying to do the initial experiment
in the amateur satellite service. We want to operate this for our own
education and to build towards presenting an experimental R&D system to
first responders in Southern California. I have done P25
implementations for work. I won't be sharing those and I won't be writing
them personally but I will be happy to "lead" others to the
successful implementation when we get ready to provide some kind of
interoperability.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So, I am going to lead
this off. It being open source and built using open source, I need
no one's permission to start and I hope you will follow. It will be open
to any and all who want to develop code for download and to a more limited set
of developers for upload. I can provide the shell of this block diagram
in Gnu Radio blocks pretty quickly so we can begin adding the pieces for
experimentation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As Astra</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Bob</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>N4HY</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>ARRL SDR Working Group Chair,
AMSAT VP Engineering.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL,
TAPR, Packrats,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>"Trample the slow
.... Hurdle the dead"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:namaste-dev-bounces@amsat.org" target="_blank">namaste-dev-bounces@amsat.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:namaste-dev-bounces@amsat.org" target="_blank">namaste-dev-bounces@amsat.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michelle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> namaste-dev<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Namaste-dev] System Block Diagram - Version 1</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p>Here is the current block diagram. It's in the feed and on the web. We
expect it to change, of course, but we wanted to post it for review and
comment. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a
href="http://www.delmarnorth.com/namaste/requirements/Namaste%20CBlock%20Diagram.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.delmarnorth.com/namaste/requirements/Namaste%20CBlock%20Diagram.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p>-Michelle W5NYV <o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>Potestatem obscuri lateris nescis. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Namaste-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Namaste-dev@amsat.org">Namaste-dev@amsat.org</a><br>
<a href="http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/namaste-dev" target="_blank">http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/namaste-dev</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
"This is the Voice of Moderation. I wouldn't go so far as to say we've
actually SEIZED the radio station . . . " -- Obsidian Wings <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>