[eagle] Re: The DS4000 Digital Controlled TCXO

Jim Sanford wb4gcs at amsat.org
Tue Jul 3 21:08:46 PDT 2007


Juan:
Based on what I REMEMBER (I'm senile, so take it with a pound of salt) 
-30 to +50C is plenty at this point. 

Thanks for all you're doing.  You are producing good data and 
articulating valid concerns, which I'd rather deal with NOW than ON ORBIT.

Happy Independence Day to all.  Please take some time out to enjoy 
family, celebrate our Nation, honor our Veterans, and spend some time in 
what my wife calls, "Norman Rockwell America."
Thanks &  very 73,
Jim
wb4gcs at amsat.org


Juan Rivera wrote:

> Jim and group,
>
>  
>
> I can't either, but here's another area where we need requirements.  
> How stable does this receiver need to be to satisfy the needs of the 
> users?  Is it driven by the human ear or the ability of a data decoder 
> to stay locked up?  - We need long term / short term requirements?
>
>  
>
> I'm getting set up to do a temperature run tomorrow.  I just ran the 
> radio from +26C to +50C to get an idea what to expect.  Here's what I 
> found:
>
>  
>
>  
>
> That missing chunk in the middle is me re-patching my test equipment.  
> When I saw those saw-tooth's I wanted to hook the TS-2000 up so I 
> could listen again.  Sure enough they are jumps in frequency just as 
> the chart shows.  Each "tooth" is made of multiple data points so this 
> is not the +/- 1 digit LSB frequency counter error I mentioned earlier.
>
>  
>
> For this preliminary test I didn't have a temperature probe inside the 
> radio so I don't know how close to +50 it actually got.  Tomorrow I'll 
> do a much more thorough job and take it down to about -30C.  I'm 
> thinking -30C to +50C.  Any other suggestions as to temp extremes?
>
>  
>
> Juan
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* Jim Sanford [mailto:wb4gcs at amsat.org]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:08 PM
> *To:* juan-rivera at sbcglobal.net
> *Cc:* 'Bill Ress'; eagle at amsat.org
> *Subject:* Re: [eagle] Re: The DS4000 Digital Controlled TCXO
>
>  
>
> Juan:
> I can't imagine it NOT being a problem.
>
> For the sake of completeness, let's assume that it IS, and solve it.
>
> Thanks for all your hard work.
>
> 73,
> Jim
> wb4gcs at amsat.org <mailto:wb4gcs at amsat.org>
>
>
> Juan Rivera wrote:
>
>Hi Bill,
>
> 
>
>Aren't all these tools neat?  I though you'd like the audio!
>
> 
>
>I'm thinking that the uplink guys are going to have to weigh in and tell us
>
>if these jumps are a problem or not for data.  I'd think that they would be
>
>for demodulating data and a major annoyance for SSB.  It's the sort if
>
>subtle stuff that I didn't notice at first.  I'm sure there are a few more
>
>surprises waiting to be discovered.
>
> 
>
>I'm curious about the beat since the two oscillators produced IF outputs
>
>that were fairly far apart and yet the beat seems to be around 1 Hz.  I
>
>guess I could try to sniff the internal oscillator to see exactly where it
>
>really is.
>
> 
>
>73,
>
> 
>
>Juan
>
> 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: Bill Ress [mailto:bill at hsmicrowave.com] 
>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 6:49 PM
>
>To: juan-rivera at sbcglobal.net <mailto:juan-rivera at sbcglobal.net>
>
>Cc: eagle at amsat.org <mailto:eagle at amsat.org>
>
>Subject: The DS4000 Digital Controlled TCXO
>
> 
>
>Hi Juan,
>
> 
>
>The audio is a fantastic addition to your super analysis regime. Just 
>
>really fine work!!
>
> 
>
>I've already addressed the issue of the two 10 MHz oscillators beating 
>
>as heard in clip #1.
>
> 
>
>Now what you hear in the second audio clip doesn't surprise me. Just 
>
>another reason why I remain digitally challenged and analog biased.
>
> 
>
>The DS4000 is a "digitally" corrected voltage controlled oscillator. I 
>
>believe what you are hearing is the frequency being corrected in finite 
>
>digital steps. An analog temperature corrected VCO will not do this. The 
>
>correction will be continuous and smooth. The key advantage of the 
>
>"digitally" corrected VCO is the ability to "remotely" correct the 
>
>frequency with a digital input. I would submit, that feature is not 
>
>needed for our application.
>
> 
>
>The "analog" TCVCXO used in the S2 concept converter uses a low cost 
>
>device (available from several suppliers) and offers +/- 1 PPM stability 
>
>over temperature (-40 to 85 C).
>
> 
>
>Regards...Bill - N6GHz
>
> 
>
>Juan Rivera wrote:
>
>  
>
>>All,
>>
>> 
>>
>>I should have gone to work today but I ended up working on the 70 cm 
>>
>>Receiver all day instead. Today marks a milestone for me -- my first 
>>
>>use of audio files. You'll find two in my write up if you click HERE 
>>
>><http://www.juanr.com/pages/hobbies/ham_radio/Eagle/Stability.htm>. I 
>>
>>think they work much better than descriptions and graphs. Now you can 
>>
>>hear what I'm talking about...
>>
>> 
>>
>>Have a great 4th! I plan to do a temperature run on the receiver 
>>
>>tomorrow to celebrate! Let's see what that internal oscillator does 
>>
>>when it's not at room temperature!
>>
>> 
>>
>>P.S. to OSCAR guys... If you have time come on over and help me run 
>>
>>this test. I'll probably start early to beat the heat. If you've never 
>>
>>been gassed by CO2 before, now is your chance!
>>
>> 
>>
>>73,
>>
>> 
>>
>>Juan - WA6HTP
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>
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>
>Eagle at amsat.org <mailto:Eagle at amsat.org>
>
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>
> 
>
>  
>
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