[amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS Re:Re:dream)

W4ART Arthur Feller afeller at ieee.org
Tue Jul 7 09:37:47 PDT 2009

Hi, LeRoy,

First of all, if an issue arises, FCC will discuss the matter with  
affected folks long before taking action against a license.  Legal  
actions, both theirs and yours, cost a lot of money.  Talking over an  
issue is far more practical and less expensive.  Not to worry.

A wonderful thing about amateur radio is that it's only for individual  
people to learn and try ideas.  We have both a great deal of  
flexibility and the responsibility that goes with the flexibility.   
Gives us wonderful possibilities!!!


73, art.....
W4ART/4  Miami FL

On 7-Jul-2009, at 12:28 PM, kd8bxp at aol.com wrote:

> Wow I am honestly surprised by this attiude. This is the 2nd email  
> that I have seen saying don't ask the FCC anything
> I the rules are vauge at best - why else would so many people  
> disagree about what can and can not be done
> I don't have the time or money to go into a legal battle with FCC -  
> and I don't want to loose my license if this is in their minds  
> illegal. I am just not willing to do that -
> A judgement for or against is the only way to settle the question  
> once and for all.
> If I personally don't like the ruleing then I would just have to  
> live with it - or file for an appeal.
> There is no reason that I can see to break the law (maybe) and let  
> it sort itself out latter.
> I am really surprised by this -
> Truely surprised
> A judgement needs to be made - some people may not like it - but if  
> that is the rules - we can make reasoned arguments as to why the  
> rules need to be changed. Not just break the rules and then sort it  
> out later
> LeRoy, KD8BXP
> http://www.HamOhio.com
> Sent on the Now Network™ from my Sprint® BlackBerry
> From: W4ART Arthur Feller
> Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:13:59 -0400
> To: <kd8bxp at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers  
> (WAS Re: Re:dream)
> "Whenever you get in bed with the Federal government, you often get  
> more than just a good night's sleep."  Ronald Regan.
> Translation:  Don't ask for a ruling unless prepared to hear  
> something you won't like.
> Better to proceed in good faith and sort out the matter only if  
> needed.
> I hope this helps.
> 73, art.....
> W4ART/4  Miami FL
> On 7-Jul-2009, at 11:42 AM, kd8bxp at aol.com wrote:
>> Ben, I agree we need a ruling on this I think part 97 is vauge and  
>> vauge for a reason
>> What we need is to setup a confrance call or something so we can  
>> get a well written letter together and get it off to someone who  
>> can make a ruleing at the FCC
>> Skype, echolink, dstar or something where those that are interested  
>> can all join in -
>> Define a system and descuss the possablities of doing call sign  
>> routing, sending the pages up to a satellite ect ect
>> But before "we" put a lot of time and effort and money into this
>> I think we need a ruleing
>> I know for a fact that our local repeater is cabable of doing 2  
>> tone paging - and was in use back when I was very young and not a  
>> ham - the elders of the local club say it was able to send alerts  
>> for weather, pages for people to get on the radio, ect. It was all  
>> done with tones at the time - "our" pagers are far more advanced  
>> and can display the text of whatever
>> No one in the club can tell me why they stopped using pagers - a  
>> couple of the guys thought it was because cell phones became small  
>> and able to be carried in your hand.
>> But at around the same time they stopped paging, kantronics also  
>> stopped modify pagers for 2 meters, and I think they stopped making  
>> the tncs that were able to do POCSAG - so my thinking was that a  
>> rule had changed making pagers illegal in the ham bands. Or at very  
>> least questionable.  From the kantronics point of view the may not  
>> have been selling many of them and just didn't want to put the time  
>> and resources into making them anymore.  But something happended -
>> As I said our local repeater is cabable of doing two tone - it was  
>> built like that from the beginning
>> We need to setup something and get as many people as we can write  
>> up a well written paper and get a ruleing.  That is bottom line on  
>> it -
>> I am on the fence as far as if it is legal or not - on one hand an  
>> agrument can be made for telemetery - which is aloud - on the other  
>> hand pagers can be used to send one way personal pages which is  
>> where I am unclear
>> I think as we see here agurements can be made on both sides. Which  
>> is why we need a ruleing. When rules are written this vauge some  
>> one needs to decide and stand by the decision
>> LeRoy, KD8BXP
>> http://www.HamOhio.com
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Ben Jackson
>> To: Bob Bruninga
>> Cc: kd8bxp at aol.com
>> Cc: amsat-bb at amsat.org
>> Subject: Re: OT: Universal Text Messaging and Pagers (WAS Re:  
>> [amsat-bb] Re:dream)
>> Sent: Jul 7, 2009 11:20 AM
>> Hash: SHA1
>> Bob Bruninga wrote:
>> *snip*
>> We'll agree to disagree regarding your take of the rules as almost
>> everyone else did on APRSSIG. ;)
>>> There is no reason to nit pick rules.  When one is broadcasting (one
>>> way) to the general public or using amateur radio inappropriately, I
>>> think everyone can tell when it is blatanly illegal.  I just don't
>>> see the FCC cares one nit about some of these debates when any one
>>> can see that hams are taking initiative to better their use of the
>>> radio art.
>> Considering that they've recently ruled on whether contesters should
>> give blanket "5-by-9" signals, I'd think they'd be glad to rule on
>> something interesting and relevant. :)
>>>>> You just have to ignore the curmudgeons who have nothing better
>>>>> to do than nit-pick ways to prevent other hams from developing
>>>>> useful applications of technology.  A pager is simply the
>>>>> text-to-user device integrated into the normal local 2-way
>>>>> amateur radio communications system.
>>>> The issue is that, according to Part 97, it can't be used beyond
>>>> QSTs, telemetry, or "necessary" emergency communications.  Could I
>>>> get away with setting up such a system? Likely. Do I foot to stand
>>>> on when my local OO comes knocking? Not so much.
>>> Some OO's are part of the problem, not the solution...
>> Then the solution has presented itself. Get a ruling from the FCC
>> regarding the use of transmissions to receive-only devices such as
>> pagers. Then we can finally put this issue to rest and if anyone  
>> comes
>> knocking regarding the legality of these transmissions, we can have
>> something concrete to cite.
>> Again, I'd love to set up something like this, but I'd be hard  
>> pressed
>> to spend a chunk of money on a system that could be taken down if
>> someone files a complaint to the FCC.
>> Let's take any further discussion about this offline.
>> - --
>> Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA
>> bbj <at> innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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help!  Donate and follow the story on my TNT web site!!


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