[amsat-bb] Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO, Thanks for the Data

MM ka1rrw at yahoo.com
Fri Jul 3 06:15:23 PDT 2009

He Everyone.

thank you for your good input.
Lets slow down this thread for a few days, while i recompile all of the Great information you have sent me.
Then I will post a memo to the marex web page for your review later next week.

I do need 2 more key items.

Link budget: Assume SSB

Moon to Earth on 2.4 Gig  
Earth to Moon on 1.2 gig
(note, under curret ITU rules we can not use 1.2 gig for Moon to Earth, is this still valid?)

Thanks Miles WF1F

--- On Thu, 7/2/09, Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BARRIOS TECHNOLOGY] <kenneth.g.ransom at nasa.gov> wrote:

> From: Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BARRIOS TECHNOLOGY] <kenneth.g.ransom at nasa.gov>
> Subject: RE: [amsat-bb]  Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
> To: "MM" <ka1rrw at yahoo.com>, "amsat-bb at amsat.org" <amsat-bb at amsat.org>
> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 10:29 PM
> I realize this is still very early in
> the dreaming stage but it would be nice to start seeing some
> realistic proposals soon. How about starting with a blank
> worksheet that outlines the desirements and requirements.
> This would give folks some specifics to address.
> *LUNAR System*
> Modulation type:
> Mode: 
> Power source:
> Lunar transmitter (type, output power and band):
> Lunar TX antenna (type and gain): 
> Lunar receiver (type and band):
> Lunar RX antenna (type and gain): 
> Lunar controller (type and capability):
> Delivery deadline for flight certified hardware to be
> launched:
> Length of time the system is expected to operate:
> Periods that the system is expected to be available for
> use:
> Once you have some general ideas as to what the items are
> then you will have a good idea of the total weight, size and
> what it will cost to buy, build and certify for spaceflight.
> It would also be nice to know what sort of station equipment
> would be needed to use this lunar system.
> *EARTH Station*
> Description of minimal Earth station capable of operation
> through above mentioned lunar system:
> Transmitter (type, output power and band):
> TX antenna (type and gain): 
> Receiver (type and band):
> RX antenna (type and gain): 
> Antenna tracking system:
> The above should allow for a realistic guess at the number
> of users willing to and capable of operating through the
> system.
> Kenneth
> ________________________________________
> From: amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org
> [amsat-bb-bounces at amsat.org]
> On Behalf Of MM [ka1rrw at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 8:14 PM
> To: amsat-bb at amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb]  Moon can cost less than HEO/GEO
>  High orbit launch prices
> It is hard to find exact values for the price per kilo to a
> geo-stationery orbit.  I did find a few old numbers on
> the web suggesting that around the year 2000 prices were
> approximately 25,000 to 35,000 USD per kilo.  I can
> only assume it will cost more today’s 2009 dollars. 
> If we were to build our own Geo-stationary satellite and
> were able to keep the weight down to the same weight of
> AO-40 (244 kilos), that would only cost us $8.5 USD million
> in launching fees (plus inflation).  That is not
> including the cost of the satellite.  A ballpark
> Geo-stationary amateur radio satellite and launching fees
> would be in the 20-40 million-dollar range per satellite
> (SWAG).
> If you have an extra 40 million kicking around then go
> ahead and build us a Geo satellite. Or if you work at Huges
> and can talk them into attaching a Micro Satellite to the
> next geo satellite for Free great, go for it.
> I can’t afford that and I do not know anyone at Huges, so
> I am looking into the piggyback options.  Let some
> other company pay the big bucks for the flight and
> navigation and just tag along for the ride.
> In this case NASA wants to send Un-manned Landers to the
> Moon.  All we need to do is convince them to let us
> attached a 1-2 kilo micro-satellite to the moon lander and
> use some of their power and antennas, etc.
> Just look at the Huge Savings $$$
> No navigation system (we have never had much luck at
> building our own rocket motors (AO-10- damaged satellite,
> AO-13 Miss fired and caused a premature reentry and AO-40
> Kaboom)
> No command and control RF links (just command between the
> Microsat and existing command and control system)
> NASA will pay for the rocket (we hope)
> Assuming a good landing, there will not be any need for
> periodic orbital changes.
> It’s true that our resources for building new satellites
> are very limited.
> I believe that Putting the effort into building a Moon
> qualified micro satellite seems to be the most economical
> path to take.  And will provide the greatest return on
> our investment.
> Sincerely
> Miles WF1F  MarexMG.org
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